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Transcript: Ezra Klein Interviews John Ganz

Every Tuesday and Friday, Ezra Klein invites you into a conversation about something that matters, like today’s episode with John Ganz. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcripts of our episodes are made available as soon as possible. They are not fully edited for grammar or spelling.

The Rise of ‘Middle-Finger Politics’

The political writer John Ganz walks through the long history of Trump’s brand of right-wing populism in the U.S.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

EZRA KLEIN: From New York Times Opinion, this is “The Ezra Klein Show.”

[MUSIC PLAYING]

I think a lot of Democrats, and even a lot of Republicans, are still a bit agog that Donald Trump is going to be the Republican nominee once again in 2024. After everything he’s said and done, after what he did during Covid, after everything he did to try and overturn the 2020 election, amidst all the criminal trials and scandals and corruption, all the people he has betrayed and insulted and double-crossed — this guy, still.

It’s not like there weren’t alternatives. DeSantis pitched himself as Donald Trump without the wild personality. Maybe what people liked about Trump were the positions, but he was being held back by who he was. At least not on the Republican side, that did not turn out to be the problem for Donald Trump. Vivek Ramaswamy was a younger, more cheerful, more multicultural spin on the Trumpist theme. Neither of them found any real footing. Both of them were missing something.

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Source: Elections - nytimes.com


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