South Carolina congressman Jim Clyburn: 'If Biden doesn't win, US democracy will crumble'

South Carolina congressman Jim Clyburn has been at the heart of some of the most pivotal political moments of 2020.

Clyburn, the African American House majority whip, was a hugely influential figure during his home state’s Democratic primary, where former vice-president Joe Biden handily won and began a dramatic campaign turnaround after Clyburn endorsed him.

Since then he’s also been an influential voice in arguing for the type of running mate Biden should pick, pushing for a black woman to be on the ticket – which would be a historic first.

Outside of the 2020 campaign, Clyburn, the highest ranking African American Democrat in House leadership, has been at the forefront over the ongoing national discussions on policing and the need for a broader overhaul of the criminal justice system. Clyburn has also joined calls to take down Confederate monuments.

In a wide ranging interview with the Guardian, Clyburn explained why he thinks the current protests on race relations are different, his thinking on Biden’s pick for a running mate, and how large reforms need to be to the policing and justice system.

Clyburn said there has been a sea change in the last few years over how the Black Lives Matter movement is regarded by Americans overall.

“I remember two, three years ago, there were people who would not allow the words ‘black lives matter’ to fall from their lips,” Clyburn said. “Today, not only are they falling from their lips but they are going out, marching in support of the concept, writing op-ed pieces, expressing their support for the concept.”

Asked if he thought the protests across the country spurred by the death of George Floyd, an African American man who died in police custody, was the root of that, Clyburn said “I think that’s correct.”

“You need this kind of energy that’s taking place in order to sustain any movement and so to see this energy is very, very welcoming,” Clyburn added.

It’s unclear what the ultimate legislative result will be from the protests and that energy.

Congress continues to debate some kind of policing reform bill. Clyburn thinks any policing overhaul will have to be big rather than incremental and it has to go beyond just specific changes to policing. Clyburn, though, has made a point of not advocating for merely defunding police departments, as some liberals have argued for.

“What I want to see us do is have a restructuring – I’ve used that word before and I’ve been mocked for using it and I will continue to use because I don’t know how you tell me that these are systemic problems and I don’t know how you’re going to solve them without restructuring the system,” Clyburn said, adding that the entire “judicial system, it’s got to be restructured”.

Clyburn recently also joined calls within his state to take down a statue of Ben Tillman, a South Carolina politician who defended lynching African Americans. Those calls have been part of a wider push to remove statues of Confederate soldiers and leaders across the country.

Throughout the 2020 campaign Clyburn has emerged as an undeniable power player.

His much sought after endorsement ahead of the South Carolina primary helped propel Biden to victory there and triggered the rapid cascade of events that made the former vice-president the presumptive Democratic nominee. Now he’s publicly argued that Biden could benefit from picking an African American running mate. Biden is reportedly considering more than a handful of African American women for the role.

“It would be a plus to have an African American woman,” Clyburn said. “And I’ll reiterate I have never said it is a must. The only must is to win this campaign. That’s a must, not just for black people but for the country. Because I really believe if Joe Biden does not win this campaign, this country’s democracy will crumble.”

Clyburn wouldn’t say whether there was any potential pick Biden should take more seriously. But he did say that he specifically suggested a few potential candidates who are being considered – former Obama administration national security adviser Susan Rice and Atlanta’s mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms among others.

“I suggested Susan. [Congresswoman] Karen Bass. [Congresswoman] Marcia Fudge, I’ve suggested a few,” Clyburn said.

The interview came ahead of a contentious Democratic primary in New York on Tuesday night in the race for House Foreign Affairs Committee chairman Eliot Engel’s congressional seat. Clyburn endorsed Engel, bucking progressives who had largely lined up behind liberal challenger Jamaal Bowman – who went on to win.

Clyburn’s support for Engel underscored an ongoing fissure within the Democratic party between younger liberal Democrats pushing new candidates and older, more established party leaders who are still standing by longtime allies.

If anything though, Clyburn’s bigger concerns center on the presidential election in November. He pointed out that right around this time in 2016 polls suggested that Hillary Clinton would beat Donald Trump decisively, much like polls are suggesting Biden will fare against Trump.

“Right around this time Hillary was a foregone conclusion that she would win. But she didn’t,” Clyburn said. “Irrespective of what reasons were given, she didn’t. Those reasons still hang out there today. That is what concerns me – whether or not we have in place a process that will be fair and unfettered.”