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      Republican debate: chaos erupts as Christie defends Haley and Ramaswamy calls her ‘fascist neocon’ with lipstick – as it happened

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      We’ve reached the shouting stage of the debate. It started with Christie trying to defend Haley against Ramaswamy – “This is a smart, accomplished woman and you should stop insulting her” – and descended into a shout-off between the two men.Ramaswamy punched back with a reference to Bridgegate and some casual fat shaming. He then seemed to compare Nikki Haley to Dick Cheney. “You can put lipstick on a Dick Cheney – it is still a fascist neocon,” he said.Haley and DeSantis, who have the most to gain or lose tonight, have bubbled back into the background.That wraps up the fourth Republican primary debate. There was shouting, there was misinformation, and there was a lot of discussion of the one candidate not in the room – Donald Trump.
      Nikki Haley delivered a relatively muted performance, ultimately presenting herself as a calm foil to Trump’s chaos. She arguably had the most to gain – or lose – tonight, given her recent momentum in polls.
      Ron DeSantis doubled down on far-right talking points on transgender rights and immigration, and was feisty in his attacks of Haley, who has been gaining on him.
      Chris Christie was one of the feistiest debaters, coming down especially hard on Trump and DeSantis, whom he accused of parroting the former president.
      Vivek Ramaswamy was characteristically on the attack, swiping especially hard at Haley.
      The moderators posed some of the sharpest questions we’ve yet seen at a Republican debate, asking direct, pointed questions about these candidates’ viability against Trump and their past equivocating.
      Read more:In the final question, the candidates were asked which former president they draw inspiration from.Christie said Ronald Reagan, because he was a “slave to the truth”. Haley said George Washington. DeSantis said Calvin Coolidge, someone who “knew the proper role of the president” and small government. Ramaswamy chose Thomas Jefferson, for his youth.DeSantis promoted the election police force he created.The force arrested 20 people. More than half of the cases have either been dismissed or have resulted in plea deals with no jail time. Several of those charged did not know they couldn’t vote and were not informed of their ineligibility.Turns out Vivek Ramaswamy is still going to be a bully. When a question about Ramaswamy’s swipes about Nikki Haley’s faith and identity as a fellow Indian American arose, he attempted to spin a response into doubts about her authenticity and then tried to redeem sexist comments from past debates.He then held up a sign that said “Nikki = Corrupt”. The audience audibly booed at Ramaswamy, and cheered when Haley said she wouldn’t bother to respond.On gender-affirming care, for example, the candidates repeatedly made reference to “genital mutilation”, baselessly implying that the gender-affirming care – which is endorsed by major medical associations – was abuse.One-upping each other, DeSantis and Haley sparred over who had been more restrictive of the rights of queer people.“I did a bill in Florida to stop the gender mutilation of minors. It’s child abuse, and it’s wrong. She opposes that bill. She thinks it’s fine and the law shouldn’t get involved with it,” DeSantis said.DeSantis took a rare swing at Trump. He said Trump didn’t use his executive powers to fire Dr Anthony Fauci and FBI head Christopher Wray, or to deport even more undocumented migrants. He then mentioned Trump’s age and said the American people shouldn’t vote for someone who is nearly 80.But Christie still pounced on DeSantis, saying he was too scared to directly take on Trump.Discussion had turned back to Trump, and his assertion that he’d restrict immigration from Muslim countries.Haley said she opposed a “straight Muslim ban”, and said policy should focus on countries that are a threat to the US. DeSantis, meanwhile, framed the issue of Muslim people immigrating to the US as a cultural issue.“Look what’s happened in Europe,” he said. “They imported mass numbers of people who reject their culture. Europe is committing suicide with the mass migration.”Echoing a common, xenophobic talking point, he baselessly implied that immigrants were responsible for antisemitism in the EU.Turning to questions of what’s ailing the economy, and what to do about it, the candidates had different theories on the former issue, but few concrete ideas on the latter.Haley said inflation and high interest rates were making it difficult for Americans seeking homeownership. DeSantis said both parties were borrowing, printing and spending too much money, while Ramaswamy said that he wanted to reduce the central bank’s headcount by 90%.Ramaswamy accused China of sending chemicals to Mexico for the manufacture of fentanyl.Here’s more context on that:Picking up a familiar line of attack, DeSantis also attacked Haley as sympathetic to China.This is something he’s attacked her on at previous debates, capitalizing on a letter she wrote to China’s ambassador to the US in 2014, thanking him for congratulating her on her re-election.After a short break, we are back with discussion of fentanyl and the southern border of the US.DeSantis, who had made this a key political issue – flying asylum seekers to Democrat-led areas – said he would make it legal to shoot suspected drug traffickers at the border, whom he would classify as terrorists.We’ve reached the shouting stage of the debate. It started with Christie trying to defend Haley against Ramaswamy – “This is a smart, accomplished woman and you should stop insulting her” – and descended into a shout-off between the two men.Ramaswamy punched back with a reference to Bridgegate and some casual fat shaming. He then seemed to compare Nikki Haley to Dick Cheney. “You can put lipstick on a Dick Cheney – it is still a fascist neocon,” he said.Haley and DeSantis, who have the most to gain or lose tonight, have bubbled back into the background.Haley, meanwhile, has had to clarify her past inscrutable responses to questions about Israel and Hamas.“You said in last month’s debate that by contrast to the Biden administration’s approach to Iran, you would ‘punch them once and punch them hard’. Were you saying that it’s time to bomb Iran?” asked Eliana Johnson.Haley said that’s not what she meant, but that the administration has been too accommodating of Iranians by weakening sanctions to secure the return of American prisoners.So far any discussion on Israel has been focused on the Israelis killed by Hamas in the deadly 7 October attack. The candidates have not mentioned the more than 16,000 people killed largely by Israeli strikes in Gaza, including thousands of children.The next set of questions is about Israel.The question comes on the same day that Senate Republicans blocked a supplemental funding bill that included financial aid for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan, and border security provisions. The vote was held up by Republicans who wanted more stringent border policies in exchange for their support.DeSantis accused the Biden administration of hurting Israel’s ability to defend itself. Christie said he would send troops to save hostages held by Hamas.Kelly is out with another biting question, this time for Chris Christie:“Your best state is New Hampshire and even there, two thirds of GOP voters say they would be angry and disappointed if you won. Respectfully, Governor, you have not stopped Mr Trump, and voters may wonder how you could possibly become the nominee of a party that does not appear to like you very much.”Christie responded that Trump (who he referred to as “Voldemort – he who shall not be named”) was the candidate that everyone here is really competing with. “I’m in this race because the truth needs to be spoken,” he said. “He is unfit. This is a guy who just said this past week that he wants to use the Department of Justice to go after his enemies when he gets in there. And the fact of the matter is, he is unfit to be president, and there is no bigger issue in this race, Megan, than Donald Trump.”“I love all the attention, fellas, thank you for that,” said Haley, as DeSantis and Ramaswamy piled on her about cybersecurity and her corporate donations.Vivek Ramaswamy made a splash in the first Republican debate, but what some considered witty, antiestablishment repartee has now been deemed bullying. A low point for Ramaswamy came after he evoked Nikki Haley’s daughter’s TikTok account in the last debate. As Ramaswamy continues to drop in polls and popularity, some are waiting to see if he will change tact. More

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      Swings, misses but no clear winner: five takeaways from the fourth Republican debate

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      The fourth Republican debate in Alabama featured just four people – winnowing the broad pool down to Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, Chris Christie and Vivek Ramaswamy – but once again missing the frontrunner Donald Trump.The debate, hosted by NewsNation and moderated by Megyn Kelly, Elizabeth Vargas and Eliana Johnson, devolved into conspiracy theories and confusing personal attacks despite some clear and forthright questions.With primary elections just weeks away now, the four candidates tried to make their mark on stage yet again, but largely fell short. Here are the key takeaways.When pressed on Trump, the candidates took some swings and many misses at the likely Republican nomineeChris Christie again positioned himself as the anti-Trump candidate, pointing to Trump’s legal issues and calling him a “dictator” who would weaponize the justice department to settle his scores.Haley and DeSantis focused instead on specific policy issues. Haley said she opposed a “straight Muslim ban”. DeSantis avoided saying if Trump was unfit for office, but said the former president had not delivered on several promises, and the American people should want a young president.Christie chided his opponents for continuing to skirt around direct Trump attacks.The Israel-Hamas war once again featured heavily in the debate, largely centered on antisemitismThe candidates, other than Ramaswamy, doubled down on their aggressive, pro-Israel rhetoric. Haley said she would introduce legislation to tie anti-Israel sentiment with antisemitism and made a comparison between pro-Palestinian protests and KKK marches.DeSantis accused Biden of restricting support for Israel (Biden has requested at least $14bn in additional funding for Israel aid) and once again touted his own actions as governor of Florida.Personal attacks were common, and Vivek Ramaswamy was at either end of many of themWith four desperate candidates pulling out all the stunts, Ramaswamy once again stood out for his antics on stage. From holding up a paper saying “Nikki = Corrupt”, to making fat phobic digs at Christie, the entrepreneur attempted to stay relevant, but was met multiple times with audience boos.But there were some other attacks too. Haley and DeSantis, both struggling to save a second-place spot, called each other hypocrites on China policy, transgender issues and other conservative red meat topics.Transgender issues cycled in and out of both the answers and questions in the debate, though the issue doesn’t seem to be a decisive vote winner for most RepublicansDeSantis attacked Haley on a failed “bathroom bill” in South Carolina and touted his own anti-trans bills in Florida. Ramaswamy called transgender identity a mental health issue. Christie attempted to walk the middle road by saying he would let parents decide and stay out of the discussion on whether children should be able to get gender-affirming treatment.There was no clear winnerAll the candidates seemed to do what they were expected to do. Christie focused on his anti-Trump posturing. DeSantis focused on his wins as a governor. Haley played the role of steady conservative hand. And Ramaswamy attempted to make memes and headlines by being a bully and firebrand. More

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      Four Republican presidential hopefuls to meet for fourth debate in Alabama

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      Four White House hopefuls will meet onstage in Alabama for the fourth Republican presidential primary debate, the smallest lineup yet as the window for denting Donald Trump’s lead narrows.Wednesday night’s debate, hosted by the cable network NewsNation at the Moody Music Hall at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa, offers one of the last major opportunities for the candidates to make their case to Republican voters before the party’s nominating contest begins next month.The two-hour event will feature Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, and Nikki Haley, a former governor of South Carolina and former United Nations ambassador, who are locked in an increasingly combative scrap to be the second-place alternative to Trump. They will be joined by Chris Christie, a former governor of New Jersey and Vivek Ramaswamy, an entrepreneur, who both trail far behind.The three previous debates have so far failed to pull Republican voters away from Trump, who maintains a dominant lead in national and early-state polls with six weeks to go until the Iowa caucuses launch the 2024 GOP nomination calendar.A national Monmouth University poll released on Wednesday before the debate found Trump 40 percentage points ahead of DeSantis, his next closest rival. Nodding to her momentum on the campaign trail, the poll found Haley’s standing rose the most since July, climbing 9 points from 3%.The vast majority of Republican voters said Trump would be their strongest candidate against Joe Biden, including four in 10 Republicans who currently support another candidate. Further complicating their path to the nomination, supporters of Trump’s Republican rivals are divided on whether the remaining candidates should stay in the race or coalesce around a single alternative.“We can parse these numbers until the cows come home, but the results don’t look good for any candidate not named Trump,” said Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute.DeSantis, whose campaign has stalled since he entered the race this summer, has staked his campaign’s success on a strong showing in Iowa, which holds its caucuses on 15 January.“We’re going to win Iowa,” DeSantis said during a Sunday interview on NBC’s Meet the Press. “I think it’s going to help propel us to the nomination.”DeSantis earned the high-profile endorsement of Iowa’s Republican governor, Kim Reynolds, and is touting his visits to all of the state’s 99 counties. Yet an NBC News/Des Moines Register/Mediacom poll released at the end of October showed DeSantis tied for second with Haley in Iowa and lagging far behind Trump.Haley is hoping to build on her campaign’s momentum following a series of strong debate performances. In recent weeks, she has closed in on DeSantis, pulling ahead of him in New Hampshire, while winning over Wall Street donors and racking up endorsements from anti-Trump Republicans, including Americans for Prosperity Action, the political network founded by conservative billionaires, Charles and David Koch.Trump, who faces 91 federal charges in four cases, including his attempts to overturn the results of the 2020 election he lost, has sought to portray himself as the inevitable nominee. A series of recent polls showed him leading Biden in several swing states even as he continues to articulate an increasingly anti-democratic vision for a second term. In an interview with Fox News host Sean Hannity on Tuesday night, Trump vowed to only be a dictator “other than day one”.To qualify for the fourth debate, candidates needed at least 6% support either in two national polls or one national poll as well as two polls from states with early nominating contests. They also needed to have at least 80,000 unique donors, up from 70,000 for last month’s debate.skip past newsletter promotionafter newsletter promotionAll candidates must also have signed a pledge to support the eventual Republican nominee, which Trump has refused to do. That means the former president, who is trouncing the field in polling and fundraising, technically would not qualify for the debate, even if he chose to attend.Unlike past debates, Trump is not planning to hold a dueling rally at a location near the debate venue. Instead he will spend the evening at a fundraiser in Florida.Earlier this week, North Dakota governor Doug Burgum, who failed to qualify for the third debate and was on track to miss the fourth, suspended his campaign, denouncing the RNC’s “clubhouse debate requirements” that he said were “nationalizing the primary process”.Burgum’s departure came after Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina abruptly ended his campaign, saying that voters “have been really clear that they’re telling me, ‘Not now, Tim.’”Wednesday’s debate will be hosted by Elizabeth Vargas of NewsNation alongside conservative moderators Megyn Kelly, a former Fox News anchor and Eliana Johnson, editor-in-chief of the Washington Free Beacon. More

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      The 15 questions that will not be asked at the Republican debate | Sidney Blumenthal

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      The next Republican debate, like every previous one, is a staged performance simulating a debate. It is in the spirit of a Potemkin Village, the painted wooden facade of a thriving town transported place to place on the orders of Prince Gregory Potemkin to impress his lover Catherine the Great on her grand tour of the new lands of the Russian empire in 1783. The legend of the Potemkin Village gained currency with the publication of the Marquis de Custine’s Russia in 1839. Inspired by the first volume of Alexis de Tocqueville’s Democracy in America, Custine decided he would secure his fame by the parallel feat of traveling through Russia. “The Russians have only names for everything, but there is nothing in reality. Russia is a country of facades,” he wrote. His insight has never faded, from the Romanovs through the Soviet Union down to Putin, where nothing is true.The Potemkin Village of the Republican contest, conducted under the shadow of a tyrant, is more Custine than Tocqueville, more Russia in 1839 than Democracy in America. It is the triumph of scenography above ideology. Revealing the reality behind the theatrical setting is too terrifying to contemplate for the participants. The pasteboard facade of a debate is shuttled into the pasteboard facade of an impeachment.Yet the utter political and moral collapse of the tattered remnants of the Republican party has been the subject of several recently published exposes. McKay Coppins’ Romney: A Reckoning has disclosed the lonely ruminations and regrets of the Republican presidential nominee of 2012. Mitt Romney is unrestrained in his contempt for Trump, his venality and threat to the constitution. Romney’s scorn for Trump is equaled by his disdain for Trump’s cowardly enablers, especially his fellow senators. “I don’t know that I can disrespect someone someone more than JD Vance,” he said. Observing from his unique perch, Romney wrote out for himself a line from William Butler Yeats’s apocalyptic poem, The Second Coming, “The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity.” “A very large portion of my party,” he told Coppins, “really doesn’t believe in the constitution”.Liz Cheney’s new memoir, Oath and Honor, draws the same conclusion of a party jettisoning its principles in the embrace of a despot who would overturn the constitution. Her story describes herself running from Republican leader to leader as a modern-day Paul Revere sounding the alarm on the eve of the January 6 coup to find herself standing alone on Lexington Green. The only patriots joining her are Democrats. Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell, would-be master of strategy, tells her not to worry, there’s no need to do anything, he wouldn’t support Trump’s impeachment and removal after the coup, that Trump will “fade away”. She mounts her horse again to warn that Trump intends to establish a dictatorship for life.Cheney’s memoir has followed on the heels of Robert Kagan’s dark essay making the same point in the Washington Post. Kagan, like Cheney, a neoconservative turned Never Trumper, wrote, “A Trump dictatorship is increasingly inevitable. We should stop pretending.” Trump mocked Kagan and his ominous prediction by approvingly posting a link to the article on his Truth Social account, turning forewarning into vindication. Trump retweeted one of his acolytes, Congressman Cory Mills, of Florida, who wrote that Kagan proved the case for Trump: “For months, the radical left and never Trumpers tried to claim President Trump could not win a general election. They tried to launch countless indictments & false allegations to get him off the ballot. Now, it’s obvious the Americans from all walks of life, not from any singular socioeconomic background, are in staunch support of Donald J Trump.”Then there has been the publication of Tim Alberta’s book on the moral corruption of the evangelical right, The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism. Alberta, an evangelical himself, disillusioned by the movement’s turn to Trump, whom he calls a “lecherous, impenitent scoundrel”, chronicles its leaders’ sinful descent to idol-worshipping Trump as their “mercenary” redemptive Christ. It does not matter that Trump, as Alberta reports, considers “these so-called Christians” as “some real pieces of shit”. Christian nationalism is now completed with its fusion with Trump. Nothing illustrates Alberta’s shudder more than the rise of Mike Johnson, evangelical true believer and Trump coup plotter, to become speaker of the House.So far, the decadent ruination of the Republican party, the threat to the constitution and Trump’s brazen plans for a dictatorship have not been seen fit to discuss as the centerpiece of any Republican debate. Role-playing is the essence of sustaining the suspension of disbelief. The mise en scene of a weighty event is physically replicated to complete the picture – the podiums, the long desk, the patriotic backdrop – the Potemkin Village. But the pretense only further contributes to the flattening of the party that has been trampled by the despot in waiting.This particular charade of a debate has most recently taken the form of Nikki Haley’s media-driven star turn as an alternative to Donald Trump. Having won the support of Charles Koch, the surviving Koch brother, she has, in the common parlance, “momentum”. But, a few weeks ago, before wandering Republican donors inflated the Haley boomlet, an influential Republican in Washington touted to me anticipation of her “momentum”. Haley’s backers would concentrate behind her, he explained, but she would lose; they would mostly oppose Trump, who he hoped would lose; and then they would reclaim the party. Haley is a vehicle for keeping hope alive. This scenario imagines that there is another Republican party lying beyond the mists, the world of the past, still intact, only waiting to be reclaimed. Haley is their unlikely figure of restoration, hardly carrying a nostalgic impression, but she is the final thin reed left to grasp, at least for a moment. As Liz Cheney has written in her memoir, that party is gone. Her encounter with McConnell, and his certainty that Trump would “fade”, proves both her point and that the assumptions of a return to normalcy is illusory. How are things in Glocca Morra?Haley exists in a strange bubble, allowed to float unobstructed, poked at by no one except hapless Ron DeSantis, as she drifts toward her ending foretold by TS Eliot, “not with a bang, but a whimper”. Her candidacy will show once again why Trump strides like a colossus over the Republicans. Her inherent unpopularity has yet to be explored. To the extent she stands for the old conservatism, she is discreditable with the Trump base. His unabashed white supremacist national socialism always beats unvarnished laissez-faire. Her position in favor of what is euphemistically called “entitlement reform” of social security and Medicare is exactly why working-class Republicans adhere to Trump and not to traditional Republicans. “I recognize that social security and Medicare are the last thing the political class wants to talk about,” she has said. “Any candidate who refuses to address them should be disqualified. They’ll take your vote and leave you broke.” She has a record of repeatedly calling for the repeal of Obamacare. “We have fought Obamacare in South Carolina as much as we possibly could,” she has said. And, recently, she added, “It’s not about one small policy of, you know, Affordable Care Act. It’s about fixing the entire healthcare system.” She also had endorsed a series of rightwing nostrums such as “term limits” to fire all federal civil servants after five years (air traffic controllers, food inspectors, scientists?), defunding the Internal Revenue Service, and forcing congressional votes on every single federal rule and regulation (3,000 to 4,500 a year).Haley’s balloon would puncture if and when the public ever plays attention to her draconian conservatism. In the meantime, she has tried to edge to the right of Trump into RFK Jr territory by giving credence to wild anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories. “You took people’s rights away in the process,” she said, about the federal government funding of Covid-19 vaccine development. “You said, ‘Oh, we have all these vaccines. Make people get it.”In the coming debate, Megyn Kelly, the former Fox News host and NBC personality, diving into career vertigo, but lately recovered as a podcaster and YouTuber, is the more relevant figure than the pretenders who are to be her props. Her comeback provides greater drama and broader audience appeal than Haley’s remote chance.In the posturing of seriousness on the part of the questioners, it seems unlikely that the debate will focus on the urgency raised by Mitt Romney, Liz Cheney, Robert Kagan and Tim Alberta. Nonetheless, here are a few questions that Megyn Kelly, et al, might pose:*Donald Trump has said Gen Mark Milley, former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, should be tried and executed for treason. Do you agree?*Explain why you would support as a presidential nominee someone who a judge has stated is a rapist “as many people commonly understand the word ‘rape’”.*Explain why you would support for president a financial fraudster convicted of grossly lying on his bank loans.*Do you agree with Donald Trump’s assessment of his vice-president, Mike Pence, for fulfilling his constitutional duty to preside over the counting of the electoral college votes that he was a “pussy?”*Do you agree with Donald Trump, who in speaking about the 2020 election, has said: “A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.”*Do you agree with Donald Trump that Putin after his invasion of Ukraine was “genius” and “savvy”?*Should the Department of Justice drop its indictments of Donald Trump for alleged criminal violations of federal laws? If yes, why, and if not, why not?*In your view, does Donald Trump have the right to pardon himself for any crimes for which he is being prosecuted?*Can a person found guilty of a sexual assault be allowed to hold federal office? Should he?*Can a person who has been involved in more than one bankruptcy case be allowed a role in developing or implementing the federal budget? Should he?*Is section 3 of the US constitution’s 14th amendment, which prohibits those involved in insurrection against the United States from holding federal office, self-executing?*Can state legislatures replace a state electorate’s choice for president with their own pick under any circumstance?*Are the January 6 insurrectionists who have been convicted of violent assault of police officers and are now serving prison sentences being held as hostages who should be pardoned?*Do you agree with this statement? “If I happen to be president and I see somebody who’s doing well and beating me very badly, I say, ‘Go down and indict them.’ They’d be out of business. They’d be out of the election.”*Finally, in honor of the House speaker, creationist Mike Johnson, how old is the Earth?
      Sidney Blumenthal, former senior adviser to President Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, has published three books of a projected five-volume political life of Abraham Lincoln: A Self-Made Man, Wrestling With His Angel and All the Powers of Earth More

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      His debate with Gavin Newsom showed Ron DeSantis will never be president | Lloyd Green

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      On Thursday night, Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, reminded the US why he will never be president. His voice grates, his visage a cross between a squinted grimace and scowl. He looks like Manuel Noriega, the ex-Panamanian dictator, without the scarring. On a personal level, he lacks humor, warmth, wit or uplift. He is ham-handed, an awkward social warrior.DeSantis comes across as too hot. This is the guy who picked a fight with Mickey Mouse, his state’s largest employer. He holds degrees from Yale and Harvard, but repeatedly flashes clouded judgment. In other words, there are plenty of reasons why he is getting walloped among Republicans by Donald Trump.“You’re down 41 points in your own home state,” California’s Gavin Newsom happily reminded DeSantis during their televised debate, which Fox moderated.And if you can’t win your own state, you are going nowhere. Recall: Senator Elizabeth Warren lost to Joe Biden in 2020’s Massachusetts primary and never regained her former stature.The dust-up was organized and moderated by Fox’s Sean Hannity, with Fox advertising the gubernatorial cage match – between the governors of two of the US’s largest states – as “DeSantis vs Newsom: The Great Red v Blue State Debate”.Over 90-plus minutes, DeSantis attacked Newsom – whose Republican ex-wife Kimberly Guilfoyle is engaged to Don Jr – without lasting impact. He ran through a litany of California’s woes but couldn’t make them stick. Then again, he carries a ton of baggage, from crime and abortion to January 6 and needless Covid-related deaths. A recent court settlement over Florida’s improper withholding of Covid records highlights the fact that DeSantis’s boasts were empty.Florida is plagued by high murder and gun mortality – as Trump, DeSantis’s bitter rival, is fond of reminding Republican primary voters. DeSantis has dangled the prospect of pardoning January 6 defendants but claims to love the police.By the numbers, Florida’s homicide rate tops California’s (and New York’s, for that matter). Beyond that, Christian Ziegler, the chair of the Florida Republican party, is under investigation for rape and sexual assault. Law and order; traditional family values; whatever.On the debate stage, DeSantis failed to land the blows he needed to rejuvenate his formerly promising campaign. His one-on-one confrontation did nothing to dent Nikki Haley’s rise or bring him any closer to Trump. Air continues to exit DeSantis’s low-flying balloon.He recently received the endorsement of Bob Vander Plaats, an evangelical leader in Iowa, but that gain has yet to move the dial. On the other hand, Haley just this week scored the endorsement of the Kochs’ political network, which translates into money and campaign foot-soldiers, as DeSantis knows from personal experience.“DeSantis wins formal Koch backing as momentum continues to shift,” a Politico headline from 2018 blared. Those days are so gone.“When are you going to drop out and give Nikki Haley a shot to win?” Newsom zinged. Great question, one that DeSantis failed to answer in front of the Trump fan boy Sean Hannity. DeSantis – a Rupert Murdoch personal favorite – fell flat on Murdoch’s own network. Meanwhile, the Fox board member and ex-House speaker Paul Ryan was touting Haley to whomever would listen.Much like Mike Pence, the former vice-president and former presidential wannabe, DeSantis is bogged down in abortion and Dobbs, the gift the right wing prayed for but is now living to regret. For Pence, it was a matter of conviction; for DeSantis it looks like a case of expedience that quickly headed south.In July last year, Florida enacted a 15-week cut-off for abortion. For DeSantis that wasn’t enough. He doubled down on the issue and lost. To burnish his rightwing credentials, he then pressed the Florida legislature to adopt a six-week abortion ban and it backfired. Tremendously.He got what he demanded and is now living with its consequences. A majority of Floridians are pro-choice, by a 56-39 margin. Florida isn’t Mississippi, to DeSantis’s chagrin.“You want to roll back hard-earned national rights on voting rights and civil rights, human rights and women’s rights, not just access to abortion, but also access to contraception,” Newsom fired. The US is still waiting for DeSantis’s retort.Here, Trump smells blood. He has privately derided anti-abortion leaders as lacking “leverage” to force his hand while tweaking them for having nowhere else to go once the supreme court struck down Roe v Wade. He has also reportedly mocked as “disloyal” and “out of touch” those evangelicals who cast their lot with DeSantis.Simply put, Vander Plaats won’t be receiving a Christmas card from the Trumps later this month. In that same vein, the evangelical rank and file has parted ways with its leadership. These days, Nascar and Florida’s Daytona are their spiritual homes; church pews on Sunday, not so much.In a sense, DeSantis is stuck in the past, rerunning yesteryear’s campaigns. Right now, Trump demonstrates traction with younger voters and is making inroads with minority communities. By contrast, DeSantis is picking losing fights.Gasping for attention, he unfurled a “poop map” of San Francisco to highlight the magnitude of the city’s homeless problem. The stunt backfired. Right now, it’s DeSantis’s campaign that seems to be the raging dung heap. The words “Florida man” usually precede a punchline or something gruesome.
      Lloyd Green is an attorney in New York and served in the US Department of Justice from 1990 to 1992 More

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      Undercard for Biden-Trump? Debate puts two Americas on same stage

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      American media billed it as a “slugfest” and the “Vendetta in Alpharetta”. Ron DeSantis’s campaign hyped it with a “tale of the tape”. In the era of politics as entertainment, everyone had an interest in turning a debate between two state governors with presidential aspirations into something resembling fight night in Las Vegas.After all, it seems the Elon Musk v Mark Zuckerberg cage match is not going to happen, so the showdown between Florida governor DeSantis and his California counterpart Gavin Newsom on prime time television on Thursday would just have to do.For Fox News, there was the promise for ratings for a White House race that might have been or might still be. DeSantis is desperate to be president but losing badly to Donald Trump in Republican primary opinion polls. Newsom equally aches with ambition but dare not say so while fellow Democrat Joe Biden has the big chair. Consider this Newsom’s audition for 2024 should the current president bow to old age or bad polling or both.There were plenty of low blows, blood on the canvas and less than impartial refereeing from Hannity. DeSantis, in the red corner, failed to land the big punch that could turn his fortunes around. Newsom, in the blue corner, floated like a butterfly and stung like a bee, ensuring that he will live to fight another day – quite possibly in 2028.So this remained effectively the undercard for the expected rematch between Biden and Trump next year. Newsom turned both presidents into a one-two punch, promoting Biden’s economic record while relishing Trump’s dominance of the Republican primary.He goaded DeSantis: “You’re trolling folks and trying to find migrants to play political games, to try to get some news and attention, so you can out-Trump Trump. And by the way, how’s that going for you, Ron? You’re down 41 points in your own home state.” DeSantis stared into the middle distance, his face contorted in a rictus like an overripe pumpkin.The governors represent two of the three biggest states in the US. DeSantis, 45, is a culture warrior who wages war on Covid science, gun control and pronouns. Newsom, 56, is a progressive peacock seen by his foes as part of the hypocritical liberal elite. The debate put two Americas on the same stage: hunter v hipster, heartland v Hollywood, Duck Dynasty v Modern Family, Cracker Barrel v Whole Foods, beer v wine.The gulf often appeared unbridgeable, a snapshot of a nation at odds with itself. Differences on policy soon descended into the governors talking over one another. DeSantis snapped: “You’re a liberal bully!” Newsom answered: “You’re nothing but a bully.” DeSantis retorted: “You’re a bully!” Repetitive it was, Socratic it was not. Over the past eight years Trump has coarsened the discourse so that no disagreement is complete without a personal insult or viral-friendly barb.After months of trash talking each other’s records from afar, DeSantis and Newsom finally came face to face in a studio in Alpharetta in swing state Georgia. The lack of audience and other participants made this feel less chaotic and raucous than the debates that have taken place so far as part of the Republican primary contest. The men stood at lecterns about eight feet apart with red and blue images from their states behind them, as well as their state flags. It was “not a cheap set that we’ve built for you all”, Hannity said.From the opening bell, both men were on brand. DeSantis, wearing the standard issue Trump uniform of dark suit, white shirt and red tie, was bleak and saturnine, like a graveyard at night, going on the offensive against Newsom in his opening statement: “He led the country in school closures locking kids out of school while he had his own kids in private school in person. Now he’s very good at spinning these tales. He’s good at being slick and slippery. He’ll tell a blizzard of lies to be able to try to mask the failures.”Newsom, by contrast, began with sunshine and charm like a sommelier at an overpriced restaurant. He smiled and complimented Hannity for wearing a tie. But then he responded in kind: “You want to bring us back to the pre-1960s or older, America in reverse … You want to weaponise grievance; you are focused on false separateness. You in particular run on a banning binge, a cultural purge, intimidating and humiliating people you disagree with. You and President Trump are really trying to light democracy on fire.”Over 90 minutes, the pair clashed on jobs, taxes, coronavirus pandemic lockdowns, immigration, crime, homelessness, abortion and more. Hannity often had to intervene to stop them talking over one another. Statistics flew back and forth on everything from murder rates to Covid deaths. So did allegations of lying, leaving Democrats to cheer Newsom, Republicans to cheer DeSantis and viewers none the wiser.DeSantis claimed that Newsom’s own father-in-law had moved to Florida because it was better governed and wielded a map of what he said showed the quantity of human faeces found on the streets of San Francisco. He called Newsom “a slick, slippery politician whose state is failing”.The California governor responded to the tirades with a raised eyebrow and wry smile. He accused DeSantis of “smirking” and was withering about his incorrect pronunciation of Kamala Harris’s first name, saying he should show more respect for the vice-president. He scored points by hammering home the threat a President DeSantis would pose to abortion rights.For a while, Hannity, who is friendly with both men, played the part of affable and even-handed host. But he showed his true colours when he stated as fact that Biden, 81, is experiencing “significant cognitive decline”. DeSantis claimed that Newsom agrees and that is why he is running a “shadow campaign” for president. Newsom had a response ready: “I will take Joe Biden at 100 versus Ron DeSantis any day of the week at any age.”Such lines ensured that the charismatic Newsom will avoid the charge of disloyalty and continue his ascent. DeSantis is still in his 40s but resembled an ageing, over-the-hill fighter throwing punches at a phantom opponent. He did nothing to stall rival Nikki Haley’s momentum or close the gap on Trump. Newsom observed that what the men have in common “is neither of us will be the nominee for our party in 2024”.The debate was also a chilling reminder that America is heading into another election torn between different realities. Ari Fleischer, a former White House press secretary, said on Fox News afterwards: “Democrats are from Mars and Republicans are from Venus.”DeSantis’s campaign sent out a statement with the wildly improbable headline: “DeSantis crushes Newsom and Biden, unites Republicans in debate win.” The governor dashed to a hotel press conference where he sought to justify taking part: “To have 90 minutes on national TV where I’m able to go and box somebody who is on the far left – that is good exposure for me.”The pugilistic metaphor was at least consistent. But it may be time to throw in the towel. Stuart Stevens, a veteran political consultant, tweeted: “In the history of American politics, @RonDeSantis will go down as the chump who not only lost every debate in his race, but lost to a guy who isn’t even in the race. That’s talent.” More

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      DeSantis v Newsom debate: governors clash on housing, taxes, immigration and more – as it happened

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      The unusual match-up between Gavin Newsom and Ron DeSantis has come to a close. Despite a substantive start addressing policy differences around taxes, the economy and the Covid-19 pandemic, the debate quickly devolved with the pair repeatedly talking over one another. Newsom had to contend with a moderator who offered leading questions centered on rightwing talking points.The debate addressed everything from book bans to abortion to the Israel-Hamas war and homelessness.Here are the highlights:
      Newsom, who has repeatedly said he is not seeking his party’s nomination, said that he was at the debate to support the president and highlight the differences between Biden and and DeSantis, who he argued is determined to rollback abortion rights and LGBTQ+ rights.
      DeSantis accused Newsom of running a “shadow campaign” for the presidency. Meanwhile, the California governor pointed to DeSantis’ lagging polls numbers – he is trailing Donald Trump by 41 points among Republican voters in Florida.
      The pair also addressed Florida’s move to abandon people seeking asylum to California. Newsom described DeSantis as “using human beings as pawns”. In response, the Florida governor said California is a sanctuary state.
      Newsom defended his state’s record on homelessness – more than 171,000 people experiencing homelessness live in California – and said the state has invested “unprecedented resources” to solve the crisis. Afterward, DeSantis criticized San Francisco and held up a map that he said showed where feces has been found in the city.
      DeSantis claimed that Biden is experiencing “cognitive decline”, claims echoed by moderator Sean Hannity. Conservative media has long fixated on claims that Biden is suffering from cognitive decline but this narrative has largely relied on outright deception.Read more here:
      In the lead-up to his prime time debate with DeSantis, Newsom, 56, has been busy campaigning over the last few months. He has travelled to several red states, where he also paid for billboards and television advertisements. He has challenged not just DeSantis, but a number of Republican governors including Greg Abbott of Texas. He launched a “Campaign for Democracy’’ political action committee. He met with Benjamin Netanyahu in Israel and Xi Jinping in China.But as his political star rises, his constituents are growing increasingly sceptical. The governor, who sailed through an election after thwarting a recall effort, has recently seen his approval rating sink to an all-time low. His vetoes of bills that would have expanded labour protections and rights alienated powerful unions. And his rejection of laws to outlaw caste discrimination, decriminalise psychedelics and consider gender affirmation in child custody cases has confused advocates who thought they could count on his support.A poll by UC Berkeley’s institute of governmental studies, co-sponsored by the Los Angeles Times, found that 49% of registered voters in California disapproved of their governor. And 43% opposed him “taking on a more prominent role in national politics” via TV appearances and travel.“He’s taking on a new persona,” said Mark DiCamillo, director of the Berkeley-IGS poll. “He’s now broadening his overall political profile, and not all Californians are on board with that. They’d rather stick to the job that he was elected to do.”Despite pledges to continue for another 20 minutes, both Newsom and DeSantis have called it a night.The event unfolded as expected with the pair clashing over the same topics they have been for months – immigration, education and Covid policy – and Newsom emphasizing that he is not running for president and was there in support of Joe Biden.The governors threw barbs back and forth with DeSantis referring to Newsom as a “slick politician” lying to Americans and running a “shadow campaign” for the White House. Newsom, who described DeSantis as a bully intent on rolling back civil rights, said: “One thing that we have in common is neither of us will be the nominee for our party in 2024.”We’re nearing the scheduled end of the debate.After 90 minutes filled with tense exchanges and non-stop talking over one another, the pair exchanged their kindest words of the night with DeSantis praising California’s natural beauty and Newsom offering his appreciation for the Florida governor and his military service.“I also appreciate we do have fundamental differences about the fate and future of this country. And that’s why I’m going to be working so hard to get Joe Biden and Kamala Harris re-elected in 2024.”The debate has moved on to homelessness in America and long stretches of DeSantis and Newsom talking over one another in an almost indecipherable stream of references to LGBTQ+ policies and Disney.More than 171,000 people experiencing homelessness live in California – 30% of the homeless population in the US. California is considered the most unaffordable state for housing, where minimum-wage earners would have to work nearly 90 hours a week to afford a one-bedroom apartment. But Newsom defended the state’s record, arguing California is investing “unprecedented resources” to address the crisis.“We’ve gotten 68,000 people off the streets, close to 6,000 encampments, we’ve got off the streets. We’ve also invested in unprecedented resources in reforming our behavioral health system,” Newsom said. “Ron has literally the worst mental health system in America, forgive me, outside of Mississippi and Texas.”In response, DeSantis criticized San Francisco, and held up a map that he claims showed where feces has been found in the city.While criticizing DeSantis’ policies around guns in Florida, Newsom specifically mentioned the 2018 school shooting in Parkland and told the governor to address gun violence in his “own backyard”. His remarks have drawn support from Fred Guttenberg, whose daughter was killed in Parkland.In between claims that Biden is not fit for office, DeSantis has accused Newsom of running a “shadow campaign” for the presidency.“[Biden] has no business running for president. And you know, Gavin Newsom agrees with that. He won’t say that. That’s why he’s running a shadow campaign,” DeSantis said.Newsom has repeatedly said that he is not running for office and supports Biden’s re-election, but his rising national profile – and tonight’s debate – has fueled speculation about his presidential ambitions.“I will take Joe Biden at 100 versus Ron DeSantis any day of the week at any age,” Newsom said in response while again reiterating his support for Biden.Moderator Sean Hannity started the debate insisting he would be fair – while acknowledging he is a well-known conservative – but many of his questions have been leading and centered on rightwing talking points.“I am noticing some congnitive decline. Is Joe Biden experiencing cognitive decline?” Hannity said at one point.Conservative media has long fixated on claims that Biden is suffering from cognitive decline but much of this narrative has relied on outright deception.Now on to parental rights in schools and book bans. DeSantis has pulled out a censored print-out that he says depicts “pornographic” images that he claims are in books carried in California schools. Newsom countered by arguing DeSantis of on a book-banning binge.Last year school districts in Florida removed about 300 books from libraries in 2022. Among them were LGBTQ+ memoirs, including All Boys Aren’t Blue and Toni Morrison’s Beloved, the winner of the Pulitzer prize.“What’s wrong with Toni Morrison’s books?” Newsom said.Newsom also suggested poet Amanda Gorman’s poetry was banned in Florida schools. Politifact has pointed out that Newsom’s statement wasn’t entirely accurate.DeSantis accused Newsom of lying about claims that Florida made it easier for people with felony convictions to access guns. But DeSantis has loosened gun laws in the state, even those supported by most Floridians.Earlier this year the Florida governor signed a permitless carry bill into law. State law previously required that those who wish to carry a concealed gun complete safety training and undergo a more detailed background check.Gun safety groups have provided evidence suggesting the permitless carry law will contribute to an increase in violence.Read more here: More

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      DeSantis v Newsom debate: governors clash on crime, abortion, guns and more

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      Ron DeSantis, a hard-right contender for the Republican presidential nomination, took the stage in Georgia on Thursday for a debate one eager website dubbed “The Vendetta in Alpharetta.”But the Florida governor’s opponent was not Donald Trump, the former president and clear primary frontrunner, or any other Republican contender. His opponent was Gavin Newsom, the Democratic governor of California,who is not seeking his party’s nomination next year, given Joe Biden’s grip on the White House.Both governors smiled for the cameras then attacked from the off, often seeking to tie their opponent to the looming presidential race.DeSantis said: “I think California has more natural advantages than any state in the country. You almost have to try to mess California up. Yet, that’s what Gavin Newsom has done.“… They have failed because of his leftist ideology. And the choice for America is this. What [Joe] Biden and [Kamala] Harris and Newsom want to do is take the California model and do that nationally. In Florida we show conservative principles work. This country must choose freedom over failure.”Newsom said he was “here to tell the truth about the Biden-Harris record and also compare and contrast.“… Ron discusses his record in a Republican state. As a point of contrast that is different as daylight and darkness. You want to bring us back to the pre-1960s or older, America in reverse. You want to roll back hard-earned national rights on voting rights and civil rights, human rights and women’s rights, not just access to abortion, but also access to contraception.“You want to weaponise grievance, you are focused on false separateness. You in particular run on a banning binge, a cultural purge, intimidating and humiliating people you disagree with. You and [former] President Trump are really trying to light democracy on fire.”Fox News organisers called it a “slugfest” even before it began and that was what unfolded, both men throwing rhetorical jabs, but more often talking over each other in a series of windmilling brawls.It was moderated, such as it could be, by Sean Hannity. Long close to Trump, the prime time anchor and “culture war” warrior called his Trump-less project The Great Red v Blue State Debate. Fox News said it would highlight issues “including the economy, the border, immigration, crime and inflation”. It also said that without a studio audience, the governors would have “equal opportunity to respond and address each issue”.In the event, Hannity confessed immediately to being a conservative, then asked about internal migration, citing high numbers leaving California and half as many leaving Florida. Newsom cited his own statistics. DeSantis liked those from Fox. Another pattern was established.For both men, the debate carried risk. DeSantis, in reverse in the polls, risked being seen as desperate and, perhaps, lacking in political and physical stature. Subject to reports of lifts in his shoes, the 5ft 11in governor squared up to a 6ft 3in opponent who seemed to smile more naturally too.But Newsom risked – and duly received – repeated questions about what exactly he is up to, given Biden’s seat in the Oval Office but also polling which shows voters think the president too old for a second term. At 56, Newsom is 25 years younger than Biden. Of course, that most likely means his target is 2028, a post-Biden primary.Newsom defended Biden’s record and mental fitness, insisting he was not positioning himself to succeed. DeSantis insisted his rival was mounting a “shadow campaign”, and mocked Biden as old and infirm.Crosstalk and accusations of lying persisted. Newsom scored one early blow by using DeSantis’s bluster. “As he continues to talk over me,” he said, “I’ll talk to the American people.” That won him a spell straight to camera. On a question about Covid policies, Newsom scored again by focusing on DeSantis’s change in tactics, from following the science to waging culture wars.skip past newsletter promotionafter newsletter promotionBut DeSantis hit back, using Hannity’s questions as most seemed intended: as tee-ups, hitting Newsom on crime, immigration and particularly alleged elitism in any policy to hand.When Newsom hit DeSantis on gun control, regarding loosened laws, DeSantis responded: “People are leaving California in droves, largely because public safety is catastrophic.” Newsom responded with more statistics. DeSantis talked over him, saying, “I know you like to jabber, I know you like to lie.” Hannity fought for control.Asked about Florida’s controversial “don’t say gay law”, regarding LGBTQ+ issues in schools, DeSantis produced a book he called “Gender Queer” [in fact Gender Queer: A Memoir, by Maia Kobabe], censors’ blocks applied to cartoon appendages, which the governor said he’d removed from schools. Newsom dismissed the claim such books were on the curriculum in California and asked about bans affecting Black authors including Toni Morrison and Amanda Gorman.“What you’re doing is using education as a source for your cultural scourge,” Newsom said, adding: “I don’t like the way you demean people, I don’t like the way you demean the LGBTQ+ community.”Each man called the other a bully. DeSantis held up another visual aid: a map he said showed San Francisco covered in “human feces”. Newsom laughed. Hannity switched the subject to Israel and Hamas, then China.On abortion – a losing issue for Republicans since the supreme court removed the federal right – Newsom hammered DeSantis for signing a six-week ban. Hannity gave DeSantis the floor, to explain why he introduced it. Would DeSantis support a national six-week ban, Newsom repeated. DeSantis did not answer.“It’d be great if you guys co-operated,” Hannity pleaded. “I’m not a potted plant here.”Neither man showed much interest in that. Then, a surprise. After what seemed a closing question, seeking good things about each others’ states, the governors agreed to stay onstage for some more.Only, they didn’t. When Hannity came back from an ad break, DeSantis and Newsom were gone. More