A Post Office investigator has denied claims he and others “behaved like Mafia gangsters” who tried to collect “bounty” from subpostmaster victims with threats and lies.
The public inquiry has resumed its probe into how hundreds of Post Office branch managers were convicted of swindling money on the basis Fujitsu’s faulty Horizon IT accounting system.
The hearings comes as Rishi Sunak comes under pressure to end Fujitsu’s government contracts, after announcing hundreds of postmasters would have convictions overturned under blanket legislation.
And justice secretary Alex Chalk has said IT giant Fujitsu should repay the “fortune” spent on compensation if it is found culpable at the inquiry.
Investigator Stephen Bradshaw told the inquiry that he denied the allegation “that I am a liar”, and said he was not “technically” equipped to know whether there were bugs in the Horizon system.
The inquiry heard a statement by Jacqueline McDonald – who claimed she was “bullied” by Mr Bradshaw during a probe into her alleged £50,000 shortfall. She also accused Post Office investigators of “behaving like Mafia gangsters”.
Ms McDonald pleaded guilty to theft after an audit found there had been a shortfall of over £94,000. In her interview with Mr Bradshaw, Ms McDonald was accused by the investigator of telling him a “pack of lies”.
Post Office investigator Stephen Bradshaw arrives at public inquiry
The counsel to the inquiry Julian Blake said the witness’s words sounded “somewhat like language you might see in a 1970s television detective show”.
Responding to Ms McDonald’s allegations of his aggressive behaviour in his witness statement, Mr Bradshaw said: “I refute the allegation that I am a liar.”
He added: “I also refute the claim that Jacqueline McDonald was bullied … Ms Jacqueline McDonald is also incorrect in stating Post Office investigators behaved like Mafia gangsters looking to collect their bounty with the threats and lies.”
Throughout his witness statement, Mr Bradshaw said his investigations had been conducted in a “professional” manner.
The investigator – employed by the Post Office since 1978 – told the inquiry he was not “technically minded” and was not equipped to know whether there were bugs or errors in the Horizon system.
The witness began giving evidence on Thursday after being involved in the criminal investigation of nine subpostmasters, including Lisa Brennan, a former counter clerk at a post office in Huyton, near Liverpool, who was falsely accused of stealing £3,000 in 2003.
Mr Bradshaw has also been accused by subpostmistress Rita Threlfall of asking her for the colour of her eyes and what jewellery she wore before saying: “Good, so we’ve got a description of you for when they come”, during her interview in August 2010.
Toby Jones played campaigning subpostmaster Alan Bates in ITV drama
The investigator said any knowledge of flaws with Fujitsu’s Horizon software not been “cascaded down” to investigators from the IT giant or the Post Office board.
“I had no reason to suspect at the time that there was anything wrong with the Horizon system because we’d not been told,” said Mr Bradshaw.
But he admitted that he had been told by colleagues about newspaper articles highlighting problems with the Horizon system, and has seen emails discussing potential issues, since 2010.
Mr Bradshaw said a 2012 statement signed by him declaring the Post Office’s “absolute confidence” in the Horizon IT system was written by lawyers from the law firm Cartwright King.
Asked if it was appropriate for him to declare “confidence” in the system, he said: “In hindsight…there probably should have been another line stating, ‘These are not my words’.”
It has also emerged that investigators were handed cash bonuses for every conviction of a branch manager during the scandal.
Rishi Sunak has revealed plan for legislation to overturn convictions
Alan Bates – the campaigning subpostmaster who featured in the ITV drama on the scandal – condemned the “horrendous” culture of financial rewards.
Gary Thomas – a former member of the Post Office security team between 2000 and 2012 – told the public inquiry there were “bonus objectives” for investigators. Asked if influenced his actions, he said: “I’d probably be lying if I said no.”
Another former Post Office investigator Dave Posnett told the inquiry last month that bonuses were partly based on the sums of money recovered once subpostmasters had been convicted. Mr Posnett said “everyone within the security team was on a bonus, depending on their own objectives”.
The justice secretary has said that Mr Sunak’s government will want to “secure proper recompense on behalf of the taxpayer” if the inquiry delivers a damning verdict on the firm behind the faulty software.
“If the scale of the incompetence is as we might imagine, then I simply would want to secure proper recompense on behalf of the taxpayer,” Mr Chalk told ITV’s Peston.
No 10 also said that the Sunak government “fully intends” to make Fujitsu foot the bill for the scandal if the IT giant is found culpable.
Justice secretary Alex Chalk suggested Fujitsu should pay towards the Post Office compensation
Mr Sunak said on Wednesday that innocent people embroiled in the fiasco would be “swiftly exonerated and compensated” with legislation overturning more than 700 convictions.
Those whose convictions are quashed are eligible for a £600,000 compensation payment, or potentially more if they go through a process of having their claim individually assessed.
There will also be a new upfront payment of £75,000 to those not convicted by affected by the scandal – including those who lost money by paying the sums allegedly stolen out of their own pocket.
No 10 admitted on Thursday that a “significant number” of the postmasters involved in legal action against the Post Office will not accept the £75,000 offered by the government.
The PM’s spokesman told reporters: “We would estimate that around a third of individuals would take that … We recognise that there will be a significant number for whom £75,000 is not sufficient. That’s entirely understandable.”
Asked about the process for seeking a higher figure, the No 10 spokesman said an independent panel would review the claim with no involvement by the Post Office.
