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Pence-Harris vice-presidential debate: six key takeaways
US elections 2020
Coronavirus was the key theme, but Harris also warned of the threat to Obamacare as both candidates dodged questions More
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Mike Pence struggles to defend the indefensible and please his disastrous boss | Richard Wolffe
It’s rare that something unexpected and unrehearsed crosses Mike Pence’s head. The sitting vice-president is a disciplined performer known to prep for his public moments, in stark contrast to his boss.But as the vice-presidential debate neared its close, with the candidates tackling the challenges of racial justice, a dark object landed on his blanched white scalp.Pence was expressing his faux sympathy for the family of Breonna Taylor, while also condemning the notion that America is systemically racist, when a large fly found the smell of his words as attractive as the brown debris that decorates a dog run.It was that kind of night for Mike Pence: a night to polish the turds of the Trump years.When he’s not serving as a cardboard cutout smiling over Donald Trump’s shoulder, Mike Pence likes to play the role of a genial veterinarian delivering the sad news about your dead pet hamster.Drained of all blood, the sitting vice-president doesn’t need a white coat to lament the nature of the world in front of him. The strained smile on his face is a pained reminder that all isn’t right with the world.Until now, Pence has simply grieved for an America suffering from his fever dreams about the socialist threat. But after four years inside a Trump White House, that suffering looks a little more real, and a lot more deadly.The night did not start well for Pence because it started with the pandemic. What else is there to debate?“The American people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country,” said Kamala Harris, who consistently played the role of fly paper to the lies that have filled the air for the last four years.Harris pointed out that, according to Bob Woodward, Trump knew about the threat of the pandemic back in late January. “They knew and they covered it up. The president said it was a hoax. They minimized the seriousness of it … Frankly, this administration has forfeited their right to re-election based on this.”“Our nation has gone through a very challenging time this year,” lamented our vice-veterinarian. “But I want the American people to know that from the very first day, President Donald Trump has put the health of America first.”This will be news to the families of more than 200,000 dead Americans, as well as the White House staff currently struggling with a president spreading a full viral load around the executive mansion and the West Wing.Faced with this storm of excrement, Pence found his refuge hiding behind something he called “the American people”.“When you say what the American people have done over these last several months hasn’t worked, that’s a great disservice to the sacrifices the American people have made,” said Pence, as if his boss was the entire American population rolled into the Covid-filled body of a former reality TV star.“The American people I believe deserve credit for the sacrifices they have made for the health of their family, and their neighbors, our doctors, nurses, first responders.”This kind of piously indignant pabulum is not a new performance for the current vice-president but rather something he perfected as a talkshow radio host in Indiana in the late 1990s. Pence styled himself as “Rush Limbaugh on decaf” which is just the kind of awshucks deception that is so vital to serving as a cardboard cutout behind Donald Trump’s shoulder.You need a lot of decaf to pretend to be a Christian conservative while fawning over a president who pays off porn stars.Four years ago, Pence’s skills as an un-drugged Limbaugh were evident as he debated Tim Kaine in the vice-presidential encounter that literally nobody remembers from the 2016 campaign. For the record, Kaine came off hot and bothered, while Pence glided through the contest like a winged insect bouncing off the surface of a septic tank.On Wednesday night, Pence faced a very different opponent. Kamala Harris may be a senator, like Kaine, but otherwise the two Democratic veep candidates could not be more of a contrast.Kaine speaks like a Jesuit missionary who became a lawyer, a mayor and a governor. He is as reasonable as he is socially conscious. Harris is a Howard University graduate and career-long prosecutor. She preps hard and she wins cases. Kaine looked like he was suffering while Harris looked like she was having fun.The sad truth of the veep debate is that, much like the job the candidates are auditioning for, the contest isn’t worth a bucket of warm piss. It was FDR’s veep who said that, and – to prove his point – nobody can remember his name.It’s tempting to think that Pence versus Harris is somehow different, like everything else in this year from hell.Pence, after all, led the coronavirus taskforce that prayed away the pandemic so well. No wonder his boss gasped on video, under a heavy coating of orange makeup, “this was a blessing from God.”Sitting behind a couple of Plexiglass barriers, to catch the divine-like virus, Pence had by far the hardest job on stage: to defend both his disastrous record, and to please his disastrous boss.In many ways, this was a three-way contest, between Harris, Pence and Trump. But only Pence cared about the Trump voice in his head. And that astonishingly loud, gasping voice constantly distracted Pence from the contest on stage.It does not take much imagination to conjure up a world in which Pence is sworn into the presidency just before the people kick him out of officeFor starters, Trump – excluded for some weird reason from this TV show – could not shut his mouth on social media for the entire evening. This was of course a repeat performance of his debate with Joe Biden last week. It was also the unfortunate side-effect of large doses of steroids that make him look and feel like the top of a Duracell.Perhaps the incessant yapping was merely the latest sign of presidential insecurity about someone who is a heartbeat away from a Covid-infected septuagenarian’s job. It does not take much imagination to conjure up a world in which Pence is sworn into the presidency just before the people kick him out of office.For that matter, it isn’t far-fetched to worry about Joe Biden’s health either, as this pandemic rips through Washington DC, thanks to the man he’s trying to unseat. This White House is responsible for 34 infected individuals all on its own, it emerged just before the veep debate.When asked the tricky question about Trump’s health – and a possible Pence presidency – the vice-president ignored the subject as carefully as he has ignored the scientific advice on Covid. “Let me say, on behalf of the president and the first lady, how moved we have all been by the outpouring of prayers and concern for the president,” Pence said, on the verge of the most sincere outpouring of concern.Kamala Harris proved, as she has all along, that she was more than equal to the task of appearing presidential – and dodging the pesky questions of a presidential debate. When asked the same question, she pivoted neatly to turn the table back on Trump.Should Biden reveal his health records? “Absolutely,” said Harris. “And that’s why Joe Biden has been so incredibly transparent. And by contrast, the president has not. Both in terms of health records, but also let’s look at in terms of taxes.”In truth, both candidates were equally matched debaters. Pence dodged everything about climate change. Harris dodged everything about packing the supreme court.What was unequal was that Pence had to defend the indefensible: a disastrous and preventable death toll, a collapsing economy and a Covid-infected president.Trailing in every poll in every state that counts, Pence and Trump needed something to change on Wednesday night.They needed Harris to flame out, or seem like a raving revolutionary, or perhaps forget how to speak. Instead she punched and parried, and looked like she loved the spotlight as much as the fly that stuck to her opponent’s skull. More
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Kamala Harris walked a tightrope, but still wiped the floor with Mike Pence | Jill Filipovic
Opinion
US elections 2020
Kamala Harris walked a tightrope, but still wiped the floor with Mike Pence
Jill Filipovic
As a black woman on the national stage, she knew she had to walk a thread-thin line. She did so perfectly More
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Harris calls Trump's Covid response 'greatest failure' of any administration – video
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2:27
Separated from vice-president Mike Pence by plexiglass barriers, Democratic vice-presidential nominee Kamala Harris called the Trump administration’s response to the growing coronavirus pandemic ‘the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country’.
Speaking directly to the camera, Harris said, ‘They knew what was happening, and they didn’t tell you.’
Kamala Harris and Mike Pence clash over coronavirus response in vice-presidential debate
What you need to know about the first and only vice-presidential debateTopics
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Pretty fly for a white guy: insect on Mike Pence's head upstages vice-president
US elections 2020
The Republican’s six-legged companion lit up Twitter but viewers were also struck by the pinkness of Pence’s left eye
Follow live updates on the VP debatePlay Video
1:09
Fly that landed on Mike Pence head becomes VP debate star – video
Ahead of Wednesday’s vice-presidential debate, the buzz was around whether Kamala Harris or Mike Pence would turn in a standout performance.
Instead, the unexpected star of the show was a fly, which landed on Pence’s head and sat there, seemingly carefree, for a full two minutes.Timothy Burke
(@bubbaprog)
Total time a fly sat on Mike Pence’s head: two minutes pic.twitter.com/PtI0rKSi5IOctober 8, 2020
Bill Kristol
(@BillKristol)
My debate ranking:1. Senator Harris.2. The fly.3. Vice President Pence.October 8, 2020
Josh Marshall
(@joshtpm)
who will land the interview with the fly? the ride time was amazing. https://t.co/ezp0R9bRH9October 8, 2020
The unnamed fly prompted much commentary online, and the word “flies” began trending on Twitter. Some pointed out that flies, according to conventional wisdom, are drawn to feces.
nate dern
(@natedern)
A fly landing on Pence’s head while he’s saying “systemic racism isn’t real” is the universe’s way of saying “this is bullshit.” pic.twitter.com/25dBH2t5zrOctober 8, 2020
Patton Oswalt
(@pattonoswalt)
EWWWWWWWWW that fly has Mike Pence on his stomach. #VPDebateOctober 8, 2020
It wasn’t long before the fly had its own Twitter account – Mike Pence’s Fly.
During her debate prep Harris and her team were aware of the double standard women in power are subjected to compared with men – including increased scrutiny over how women look.
But it was Pence’s appearance which drew more attention.
Setting aside the issue of the vice-president having a fly on his head, people also pointed to the condition of his left eye.
Numerous viewers spotted that Pence’s left eye had a distinctly pinky-red tone, prompting widespread discussion about pink eye.Padma Lakshmi
(@PadmaLakshmi)
Is he ok? pic.twitter.com/77qDCYdFGrOctober 8, 2020
Claudia Jordan
(@claudiajordan)
#FAKENEWS he was terrible and amazingly stiff and fake. And looked sick with the pink eye AND the fly was attracted to sh*t. https://t.co/sxvaqGywfTOctober 8, 2020
Pink eye, or conjunctivitis, can be a symptom of coronavirus. Pence tested negative for Covid-19 ahead of the debate – dozens of Donald Trump’s other contacts were not so lucky.
With commendable speed, the Biden-Harris campaign seized on the fly issue: Biden tweeted a fly-related fundraising ask (“Pitch in $5 to help this campaign fly”), and “flywillvote.com” which redirected to a website where Americans can register to vote.Joe Biden
(@JoeBiden)
Pitch in $5 to help this campaign fly. https://t.co/CqHAId0j8t pic.twitter.com/NbkPl0a8HVOctober 8, 2020
Joe Biden
(@JoeBiden)October 8, 2020
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VP debate live: Kamala Harris slams Mike Pence over coronavirus response and healthcare
Pre-existing conditions are brought up as a sticking point
Harris: ‘Americans have witnessed the greatest failure of any president’
The coronavirus pandemic has already affected the staging and format
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UpdatedPlay Video
Kamala Harris and Mike Pence face off in the vice-presidential debate – watch live
Key events
Show
9.43pm EDT21:43
Harris to Americans with pre-existing conditions: ‘They’re coming for you’9.10pm EDT21:10
First volley: Harris attacks Pence over coronavirus response9.06pm EDT21:06
Vice presidential candidates take the stage8.49pm EDT20:49
How Harris and Pence have prepped8.20pm EDT20:20
Pence and Harris set to debate for first – and only – timeLive feed
Show
11.21pm EDT23:21
On climate change, I wanted to quickly circle back to something Pence said: That there were no more hurricanes than there were 100 years ago. The vice president made this point as evidence that Democrats were exaggerating the impacts of climate change – and it was a bit misleading.
My colleague Oliver Milman addressed this during last year’s hurricane season:While the overall number of hurricanes has remained roughly the same in recent decades, there is evidence they are intensifying more quickly, resulting in a greater number of the most severe category four and five storms.
The proportion of tropical storms that rapidly strengthen into powerful hurricanes has tripled over the past 30 years, according to recent research. A swift increase in pace over a 24-hour period makes hurricanes less predictable, despite improving hurricane forecasting systems, and more likely to cause widespread damage.
The devastation unleashed by recent hurricanes has led to warnings that premiums may rise as insurers face ballooning claims. A record $135bn was paid out by insurers in North America in 2017, mostly as a result of hurricane damages. “We have a new normal,” says Ernst Rauch, a senior executive at insurance company Munich Re. “We must have on our radar the trend of new magnitudes.”11.19pm EDT23:19
Max Benwell
Over on CNN, former US senator Rick Santorum just delivered a masterclass in proving someone else’s point, interrupting his fellow commentator Gloria Borger just as she was talking about Kamala Harris getting interrupted by Mike Pence. She was literally in the middle of saying how common an experience it is for women.
Matt Shuham
(@mattshuham)
Hall of Fame interruption by @RickSantorum, who cuts off @GloriaBorger to argue that Pence didn’t interrupt Harris. pic.twitter.com/OwZ50YJxWUOctober 8, 2020
JackiSchechner
(@JackiSchechner)
.@RickSantorum cutting off @GloriaBorger while she’s in the middle of explaining how women are going to hate how @VP kept cutting off @KamalaHarris could not be more meta.October 8, 2020
Patrick Radden Keefe
(@praddenkeefe)
Amazing moment just now on CNN where Gloria Borger, the sole woman on a panel with 4 men, starts to explain what it was like for women to watch Kamala get repeatedly interrupted but can’t finish because the men on the panel interrupt her. And she says “Mr Santorum, I’m talking.”October 8, 2020
Josh Schwerin
(@JoshSchwerin)
Meanwhile on CNN Santorum interrupts Gloria Borger to push back on point about Pence interrupting Harris too much not going over well with women watching…October 8, 2020
Updated
at 11.21pm EDT11.17pm EDT23:17
Pence – in contrast to Donald Trump – delivered his message in a calm, measured tone. But he repeated many of the false claims made by the president.
Most notably, he misconstrued and overplayed the impact of travel restrictions on the US’ coronavirus case count, and misleading Americans on the administration’s stance on healthcare protections for people with preexisting protections.
In other cases, Pence declined to correct Trump’s record. Asked if Pence would accept the results if Republicans lose the presidential election, Pence dodged.
“First and foremost, I think we’re going to win this election,” he said. “When you talk about accepting the outcome of the election, I must tell you, Senator, your party has spent the last three and a half years trying to overturn the results of the last election. It’s amazing.”
Harris didn’t directly respond when asked what she and Biden would do if Pence and Trump refused to step aside, Harris urged: “Please vote. Vote early, come up with a plan to vote.”11.07pm EDT23:07
When discussion turned to the police and the nationwide protests against police brutality, Pence broached Harris’ record as attorney general of California and her prosecutorial record.
It’s an issue that often came up during the Democratic primaries, and took on new relevance after the police killing of George Floyd triggered protests across the nation. As the Guardian has reported before, while Harris has sought to present herself as a “progressive prosecutor”, her record is more complicated. Her approach to sex work, police reform, prisoners’ rights and truancy have drawn criticism from activists in her home state.
Though she initially disregarded calls to investigate a series of police shootings in San Francisco after the 2014 killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, she did begin to evolve by the end of her tenure as attorney general – and in 2016 suggested some reforms to increase her office’s power to investigate police.
But these criticisms are odd coming from Pence – and Trump, who has brought them up before – given the administration’s harsh “law and order” rhetoric.Updated
at 11.11pm EDT10.55pm EDT22:55
The fly on Mike Pence’s head seems to be the breakout star of this debate.
Both vice-presidential candidates, meanwhile, swatted away direct questions – pivoting to topics they wanted to discuss rather than what was actually asked. The 90 minutes flew by, as the candidates buzzed over the moderator’s pleas to stick to time limits.
Sorry … (not sorry)Updated
at 11.11pm EDT10.45pm EDT22:45
Max Benwell
The debate has now ended, with the final question coming from an eighth grader on what can be done to bring people together.
Mike Pence and Kamala Harris answered hopefully about what can be done. But with just over a week to go until the next presidential debate with Donald Trump and Joe Biden, it seems likely that the problem will only be laid bare once again.10.43pm EDT22:43
Pence dodged a question about what he’d do if Trump loses, and refuses to accept the results.
Watching the debate tonight, we’re reminded of something Trump once said about the vice president after Pence dodged a journalist’s question about healthcare earlier this year: “I think that’s one of the greatest answers I’ve ever heard because Mike was able to speak for five minutes and not even touch your question.”Updated
at 11.05pm EDT10.30pm EDT22:30
Pence, muttered “Not true,” when Harris referenced Trump’s comments on the Proud Boys.
Harris’ assertion was true – and witnessed by everyone watching on TV. Pence has repeatedly questioned Harris’ grasp of the facts tonight – even as he has continued to make false and misleading statements.10.27pm EDT22:27
Max Benwell
Meanwhile, over on Mike Pence’s head… a fly just set up shop, and for a decent amount of time too.
In an otherwise very serious debate, it’s provided some light relief:Josh Marshall
(@joshtpm)
BREAKING: Fly lands on VP Pence’s head. pic.twitter.com/e8eoeMXRnHOctober 8, 2020
Ana Navarro-Cárdenas
(@ananavarro)
Oh my God.He’s so full of crap, a fly has landed on his head. pic.twitter.com/f61K9oIvKaOctober 8, 2020
Liz Plank
(@feministabulous)
can someone get the fly a covid testOctober 8, 2020
Patton Oswalt
(@pattonoswalt)
EWWWWWWWWW that fly has Mike Pence on his stomach. #VPDebateOctober 8, 2020
nate dern
(@natedern)
A fly landing on Pence’s head while he’s saying “systemic racism isn’t real” is the universe’s way of saying “this is bullshit.” pic.twitter.com/25dBH2t5zrOctober 8, 2020
10.26pm EDT22:26
Asked if Breonna Taylor was denied justice, Pence responded: “I trust our justice system,” Pence said.
“This idea that America is systemically racist, that there’s implicit bias in law enforcement,” Pence said, “is a great insult to the men and women who work in law enforcement.”
Harris hit back: “I am the only one on this stage who has personally prosecuted” a range of crimes, she said. She then attacked Trump’s refusal to condemn white supremacists. The president told Proud Boys to “stand back and stand by” during the first presidential debate. “This is part of a pattern,” Harris said, pointing to the president’s racist rhetoric about Mexicans, and his response to white supremacists marching in Charlottesville.Updated
at 10.33pm EDT10.18pm EDT22:18
Harris twice avoided answering whether a Biden administration would pack the supreme court.
Biden has taken a similar approach, largely avoiding a straight answer on whether he’d support adding seats to the supreme court if Trump’s nominee Amy Coney Barrett is confirmed.Updated
at 10.24pm EDT10.16pm EDT22:16
Asked what they would do in their states if Roe v Wade is overturned by the supreme court, Pence completely evaded the question, and Harris pivoted to healthcare.
Pence began by responding to a previous topic and then accused Democrats of attacking supreme court nominee Amy Coney Barrett – a conservative who is expected to overturn American’s women’s right to abortion – based on her faith.
Harris said she will “always fight for a woman’s right to make choices about her body”. She then pointed out that abortion isn’t the only issue that could be decided by Barrett – the future of the ACA is currently being challenged in the supreme court.
Neither directly said what they’d do in Indiana and California, respectively.Updated
at 10.25pm EDT10.04pm EDT22:04
Susan Page gave Pence a talking to, after he repeatedly rolled through her warnings that his time to speak was up.
The Hill
(@thehill)
Susan Page stops VP Pence as he goes past time limit: “I did not create the rules for tonight… I’m here to enforce them.”#VPDebate pic.twitter.com/FL5qAhC0ZjOctober 8, 2020
“You have 15 seconds,” Page warned Pence.
“I gotta have more than that,” he insisted.
Through the night, Page has tried to interrupt, ineffectively, with “thank you, Vice-president Pence” – even as she’s talked over.Updated
at 10.16pm EDT10.02pm EDT22:02
Max Benwell
Meanwhile, in China … viewers of the debate are reportedly not getting to find out what Kamala Harris and Mike Pence are saying about China.
This was just shared by the Globe and Mail’s Beijing correspondent (and later updated once the China section was over here):Nathan VanderKlippe
(@nvanderklippe)
The CNN feed in China the moment debate turned to China. pic.twitter.com/GuhqTDaEdaOctober 8, 2020
Updated
at 10.16pm EDT10.02pm EDT22:02
On foreign policy, Harris says Trump has “ embraced dictators around the world,” and sided with Russia over American intelligence. “America’s intelligence community told us Russia interfered in the election in 2016,” she said. “But Donald Trump prefers to take the word of Vladimir Putin over word of the U.S. intelligence community”
9.57pm EDT21:57
Max Benwell
This was the memorable moment Kamala Harris spoke directly to viewers about Trump’s plans for their healthcare:
Pod Save America
(@PodSaveAmerica)
“If you have a pre-existing condition, heart disease, diabetes, breast cancer — they’re coming for you.” @KamalaHarris pic.twitter.com/072m1n6CnwOctober 8, 2020 More
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Kamala Harris and Mike Pence clash over coronavirus response in vice-presidential debate
Vice-President Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris clashed over the Trump administration’s handling of the coronavirus in the only vice-presidential debate of the 2020 election, at a moment of extraordinary uncertainty for the US in the wake of the president’s hospitalization for Covid-19.“The American people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country,” Harris said in her opening comments to Pence, who leads the White House’s coronavirus task force. “This administration has forfeited their right to re-election.”Pence acknowledged that the nation has gone through a “very challenging time this year”,but forcefully defended the Trump administration’s handling of the pandemic that has killed more than 210,000 Americans and infected millions more, including the president of the United States and many top White House officials.“I want the American people to know, from the very first day, President Trump has put the health of America first,” he said. Promising a vaccine for the virus before the end of the year, he accused Harris of undermining faith in a potential treatment and “playing politics with people’s lives”.Harris said she would take the vaccine if it was endorsed by public health experts, but “if Donald Trump tells us to take it, I’m not taking it”.In a sign of the extent to which the outbreak has reshaped the 2020 campaign, the candidates were seated 12ft apart and separated by plexiglass dividers, a request by the Biden-Harris campaign that the Pence team initially objected to. In the auditorium at the University of Utah, any guest who refused to wear a mask was to be removed.The debate unfolded in the shadow of Trump’s diagnosis with a potentially fatal disease, which renewed focus on the advanced age of the septuagenarian presidential candidates ahead of Wednesday night’s debate in Salt Lake City. Trump is 74 and his Democratic challenger, Joe Biden, is 77.As such, the forum served not only as a preview of the leading presidential contenders in 2024, but as a grim reminder that the role of vice-president is to succeed the president should he become incapacitated or die while in office.Neither Pence nor Harris directly answered a question about whether they had discussions about taking over the presidency.Given the uncertainty hanging over future presidential debates due to the president’s infection, Pence and Harris were under additional pressure to articulate their campaign messages.Polls show that a majority of Americans no longer trust Trump to handle the virus and blame his administration for failing to control it. Trump, who claimed he had “learned a lot” about the virus from his own experience with it, has since downplayed its severity, likening it to the flu and urging Americans not to be afraid of it.In a video shared shortly before the debate on Wednesday, Trump called his infection a “blessing from God” and said everyone should have access to the experimental treatment he was given during his hospitalization.Harris, who was elected to the Senate in 2016 and unsuccessfully ran for president against Biden last year, is the first woman of color to participate in a vice-presidential debate. Over the course of 90 minutes, she will attempt to make the case that the Trump administration has failed in its response to the coronavirus, and the economic fallout, without going too far to antagonize the president while his prognosis remains unclear.The vice-president has tested negative for Covid, but there was some question about whether he should participate in the debate given his potential exposure. The virus has now infected several members of the White House staff, as well as several US senators and military officials.The candidates have spent weeks preparing. Harris, a former prosecutor, has gained a national reputation for her sharp cross-examination of powerful men – from administration officials who came before the Senate judiciary committee to Biden, whom she confronted during a primary debate last year.In 2016, Pence delivered a clean performance, skillfully defending Trump while relentlessly attacking Hillary Clinton. Since then, he has proven to be a loyal lieutenant of the president and a more disciplined messenger of the administration’s agenda. More
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